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>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling. >> but nobody has ever, ever stopped it and made it a point of then fiscal negotiation. only happened once. >> we have never been in treacherous, perilous fiscal circumstances as today. >> bret: top senate republican calling it quits was here on the set with us. the all-stars weigh in on that. surprising development next. initiated. neural speeds increasing to 4g lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood coul
>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling....
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if we had a bipartisan, avoid the fiscal cliff and pay down the debt type of agreement it would be the best thing that could happen. the market would go up and we would be liking like our future was brighter than a lot of americans think it is today. >>neil: are you smoking anything at all? >>guest: drinking a little coffee. >>neil: quickly, senator, i know you have to go the congressional black caucus has come out with a statement saying, really, leave entitlements alone and focus on hiking taxes. that is the gist of the statement. what do you think of that? >>guest: it does not do it. hiring some people -- higher income people pay a disproportional share of the taxes. and they should. but if you bring the rates back to the rate before president bush it doesnot raise enough to get us to ball. you have to curb the increase in spending on the entitlement programs. if you don't do that, and they are the biggest driver of debt, so, the american people, i think, are ready for us to do something that looks according to conventional politics like a bad idea politically, but, actually, i thin
if we had a bipartisan, avoid the fiscal cliff and pay down the debt type of agreement it would be the best thing that could happen. the market would go up and we would be liking like our future was brighter than a lot of americans think it is today. >>neil: are you smoking anything at all? >>guest: drinking a little coffee. >>neil: quickly, senator, i know you have to go the congressional black caucus has come out with a statement saying, really, leave entitlements alone and...
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cliff the debt limit the budget battles the ongoing wars and so on americans should be very concerned about exactly how balanced solutions can be found after so many members of the republican party flowed over the cuckoo's nest back in the one nine hundred sixty s. the firesign theater created a candidate who ran for president on the campaign slogan not insane it was funny that it's not funny anymore. so a heartfelt plea to the few intelligent and thoughtful republicans left who might be watching the show it's up to you to inject sanity back into your party please do it quickly. and that's the way it is tonight thursday december sixth twenty. got our website. or. forget to. go there get your.
cliff the debt limit the budget battles the ongoing wars and so on americans should be very concerned about exactly how balanced solutions can be found after so many members of the republican party flowed over the cuckoo's nest back in the one nine hundred sixty s. the firesign theater created a candidate who ran for president on the campaign slogan not insane it was funny that it's not funny anymore. so a heartfelt plea to the few intelligent and thoughtful republicans left who might be...
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cliff the debt limit the budget battles the ongoing wars and so on americans should be very concerned about exactly how balanced solutions can be found after so many members of the republican party have flown over the cuckoo's nest back in the one nine hundred sixty s. the firesign theater created a candidate who ran for president on the campaign slogan not insane it was funny that it's not funny anymore. so a heartfelt plea to the few intelligent and thoughtful republicans left who might be watching the show it's up to you to inject sanity back into your party please do it quickly. and that's the way it is tonight thursday december sixth two thousand and twelve more information check out our website thom hartmann dot com free speech dot org or t. dot com dot com slash the big picture and don't forget to mark receive begins when you get out there get active tag your it see the. technology innovation. developments around russia. the future. download the official application so far. which stream quality and enjoy your favorite. t.v. is not required to watch on t.v. only you need is your
cliff the debt limit the budget battles the ongoing wars and so on americans should be very concerned about exactly how balanced solutions can be found after so many members of the republican party have flown over the cuckoo's nest back in the one nine hundred sixty s. the firesign theater created a candidate who ran for president on the campaign slogan not insane it was funny that it's not funny anymore. so a heartfelt plea to the few intelligent and thoughtful republicans left who might be...
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lou: the fiscal cliff and now a new ultimatum on the national debt ceiling. you suppose this is the last condition? >> it's going to be a wild couple of months, maybe everybody thought with the election over, there was going to be peace and figure all of this out, but i think we're just at the beginning of a long protractive battle, lou. lou: more on the stalemate of the fiscal cliff, the impasse, and tell us what you think about the so-called negotiations. vote in tonight's online poll. do you agree president obama's ultimatum on higher taxes are actually the cause? make him responsible for driving us off the fiscal cliff? go to our to be page at facebook facebook.com/loudobbs. we'll have results at the end. chris and steven joining us here next to address that question and more. ♪ ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] oh what fun it is to ride. get the mercedes-benz on your wish list at the winter event going on now through december 31st. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho! [ malennouncer ] lease a 2013 e350 f $579 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. lou:
lou: the fiscal cliff and now a new ultimatum on the national debt ceiling. you suppose this is the last condition? >> it's going to be a wild couple of months, maybe everybody thought with the election over, there was going to be peace and figure all of this out, but i think we're just at the beginning of a long protractive battle, lou. lou: more on the stalemate of the fiscal cliff, the impasse, and tell us what you think about the so-called negotiations. vote in tonight's online poll....
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cliff discussions by folding the debt ceiling into fiscal cliff talks. take a listen. >> obama: congress, in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> jennifer: fortunately for us "newsweek" "daily beast" special correspondent michael tomasky is always up for playing political games himself. he's joining us from washington d.c. thanks for coming back inside "the war room." >> it is always my pleasure, governor. >> jennifer: always a pleasure to have you. so let me talk about this debt ceiling issue. because really, as we look at it really, the only leverage that republicans have on the fiscal cliff talks they proceed to be with the debt limit right? so today the treasury department ups the ante by endorsing republican senator mitch mcconnell's summer 2011 provision which, you know, he suggested and it effectively lets the president rai
cliff discussions by folding the debt ceiling into fiscal cliff talks. take a listen. >> obama: congress, in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> jennifer: fortunately for us "newsweek" "daily beast" special correspondent michael tomasky...
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but if we go over the cliff, what we actually do is resolve too much of our debt situation all at once. i mean, unlike greece, whose fiscal profglasy has them where they are today. >> except that if we go over the cliff and given how tenuous this economic environment is right now, i mean, the message that sends to business leaders, employers, let alone the american people, is this place is not only ungovernable, it is dysfunction beyond dysfunction. >> a friend of mine, a wealthy california guy, a liberal, said, if you think they're going to trust you after you miss the january 1st deadline, they'll be no trust. they'll say, if you can't meet your own deadline, why would you meet anybody else's. >> and the markets, whether it's europe or american, are pricing in a solution. you see it really quite clearly. >> somebody was on -- mcmahon yesterday was wrong, they're not pricing a failure, they're pricing in a solution. thank you, chris kofinis, for that report from greece. jared bernstein, as always, thank you. >>> when we return, let me finish with the ghost of fiscal cliff yet to come.
but if we go over the cliff, what we actually do is resolve too much of our debt situation all at once. i mean, unlike greece, whose fiscal profglasy has them where they are today. >> except that if we go over the cliff and given how tenuous this economic environment is right now, i mean, the message that sends to business leaders, employers, let alone the american people, is this place is not only ungovernable, it is dysfunction beyond dysfunction. >> a friend of mine, a wealthy...
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all you guys on washington pat each other on the back and say we didn't go off the fiscal cliff and the debt goes from $16 trillion to $20 trillion a couple years down the road to $25 trillion. nothing changes in washington, dc. you tax. you still spend. maybe it is time to take the medicine congressman and go over the fiscal cliff and fix the problem. >>guest: there is no fiscal cliff. there is a fiscal slope. the earth doesn't stop spinning, the sun will come up, the moon will come up and we will have to do things in john. taxes will go up and the democratic party and hopefully some responsible republicans will vote to make certain that we remove this tax cut that would take place. >>eric: no talk about responsible democrats to stop spending so were, or cut back the spending, not just cutting back the increase rate in spending but item spending cuts. >>guest: the rate of increase doesn't have anything to do with the spain people are suffering whether they are middle class or poor. we were talking about the so-called fiscal cliff, if that happens, automatically taxes are going to go up
all you guys on washington pat each other on the back and say we didn't go off the fiscal cliff and the debt goes from $16 trillion to $20 trillion a couple years down the road to $25 trillion. nothing changes in washington, dc. you tax. you still spend. maybe it is time to take the medicine congressman and go over the fiscal cliff and fix the problem. >>guest: there is no fiscal cliff. there is a fiscal slope. the earth doesn't stop spinning, the sun will come up, the moon will come up...
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the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road where they have more leverage. president obama was asked about that earlier this week and said he doesn't want to play the debt ceiling game anymore. that's where republicans have more leverage than then do on other matters. >> all right. senior political editor mark murray, have a great weekend, sir. >> i want to bring in congressman peter welch from vermont. good to see you again. talked to you last weekend on msnbc. at that point you told me that you thought there was a 50/50 shot we'd go off the so-called fiscal cliff. today speaker boehner said talks we
the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road...
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>> yes, do i. >> so no agreement on fiscal cliff, no agreement on debt ceiling, no agreement on this either? >> that's because they are obstructionists. they've turned the win into a partisan political instrument. they've turned the weather into a partisan political instrument. we have a solution to thisç 37e have introduced a discharge petition. we think that we shouldn't be holding the middle class hostage. everyone agrees the first $250,000 in income should receive a tax increase. i believe it should be higher in some areas like long island. but i'm not telling to tell somebody making $130,000 won't get a tax cut until somebody at $300,000 gets theirs. let's just vote today, tomorrow o a bill to give people a tax cut up to the $250,000, we offered a discharge petition. we need 40 republicans to sign that petition, get this out to a vote, put brakes on going over the cliff. >> congressman, thank you. >>> next, hillary can, but will she? stay with us. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own w
>> yes, do i. >> so no agreement on fiscal cliff, no agreement on debt ceiling, no agreement on this either? >> that's because they are obstructionists. they've turned the win into a partisan political instrument. they've turned the weather into a partisan political instrument. we have a solution to thisç 37e have introduced a discharge petition. we think that we shouldn't be holding the middle class hostage. everyone agrees the first $250,000 in income should receive a tax...
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fiscal cliff plan and the debt ceiling plan. what was he trying to do? >> guest: he was trying to embarrass the democrats. for instance, the president's plan on the debt ceiling was basically allowing the president to request whatever increases without the approval of congress and he thought that would embarrass democrats if they had to vote for it particularly endangered ones. >> sounded like leader reid took the bait. how the democrats respond? >> guest: there are a lot in politics going on here. we just talked about politics from mcconnell's side. democrats are aware that even if they allow -- even if they get the republicans to crumble on raising tax rates for upper bracket people there is still going to be a need next year, say march, to increase the debt limit and that was what john boehner used as is leverage a year-and-a-half ago in his talks with president obama so there's a belief on the part of democrats that they would like to get this idea in common circulation and also trying to manufacture some dialogue, the debt
fiscal cliff plan and the debt ceiling plan. what was he trying to do? >> guest: he was trying to embarrass the democrats. for instance, the president's plan on the debt ceiling was basically allowing the president to request whatever increases without the approval of congress and he thought that would embarrass democrats if they had to vote for it particularly endangered ones. >> sounded like leader reid took the bait. how the democrats respond? >> guest: there are a lot in...
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my view is there is no fiscal cliff or debt cliff. there is a political cliff and he wants to push the republicans off. the debate is how much do republicans will surrender and then get blamed by their party or how much they won't surrender and get blamed for a recession. i have to say for president obama as bad as it looks it may be a winning hand. >> he's certainly playing the hand of someone who as he said in his press conference won the election. there is no compromise here. i think there is a fiscal cliff and there is a political cliff. the president has the upper hand. taxes go up in the way his base want on wealthy people and what he wants to do is say if you don't go along with me you republicans are responsible for raising taxes on the middle class and will be responsible for the recession that's almost certain to come. >> there is no serious debating over avoiding the fiscal cliff. it's a political fight. this is a democratic party that hasn't passed a budget in years. the press corps is on the same page. everyone is asking
my view is there is no fiscal cliff or debt cliff. there is a political cliff and he wants to push the republicans off. the debate is how much do republicans will surrender and then get blamed by their party or how much they won't surrender and get blamed for a recession. i have to say for president obama as bad as it looks it may be a winning hand. >> he's certainly playing the hand of someone who as he said in his press conference won the election. there is no compromise here. i think...
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. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling, period. >> the fiscal cliff talks reached a new low yesterday when, somehow, the new york jets got dragged into it on the senate floor. >> it's not one of my favorite teams, but it's really, really fun to watch, and that's the new york jets. coach ryan, he's got a problem. he has three quarterbacks, sanchez, he's got tim tebow, he's got another guy. he can't decide who their quarterback is going to be. that's the same problem republicans are having. romney's gone, but he's still in the background. we have mcconnell and we have boehner. who is the quarterback, mr. president? who is the quarterback? >> there's s
. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling,...
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. ♪ >> it certainly 'tis the season and whether you're counting the days to the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling, christmas day, or judgment day, there's much to do and not much time to do it. as for us, we're counting down the minutes to house speaker john boehner who will be lighting the capitol christmas tree 234 just about an hour. if you're among the wealthiest of americans, then, boy, does boehner have a gift wrapped for you. in republicans' counteroffer to avert the fiscal cliff, the rich get to keep their bush era tax cuts, even as the boehner budget slashes $1.2 trillion in spending, half of it from medicare, medicaid, and other social programs. it is a lump of coal delivered by the republican reindeer to the vast majority of americans. as for new revenues, they have reached in santa's sack for that old favorite. they plan to raise $800 billion by closing loopholes and deductions. only one problem a problem that flummoxes no less than mitt romney and paul ryan throughout the campaign, a problem as real today as it will be tomorrow -- the math. as the president explained in his f
. ♪ >> it certainly 'tis the season and whether you're counting the days to the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling, christmas day, or judgment day, there's much to do and not much time to do it. as for us, we're counting down the minutes to house speaker john boehner who will be lighting the capitol christmas tree 234 just about an hour. if you're among the wealthiest of americans, then, boy, does boehner have a gift wrapped for you. in republicans' counteroffer to avert the fiscal cliff,...
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even as we are wrestling with trying to debt a handle on the fiscal cliff, we cannot lose sight of their urgent priority of making sure we have job growth -- job creation, to say the least. many of the components you have outlined -- that both of you have -- it comprised of the broad description of the fiscal cliff whether it is the expiring tax cut provisions, the expiring tax cut extensions, and spending cuts as well. if you consider more, which of those would you consider having the biggest bang for the buck in terms of economic impact of those that we are discussing here today? >> it is a given that we will extend the current tax rates for taxpayers that make less than $250,000 on an annual basis. that is absolutely necessary. when you consider the other things that are happening -- in terms of the bang for the buck, the emergency unemployment insurance program is very effective. it is small in the grand scheme of things. cbo is estimating it would costs per calendar year about $33 million. but the economic to bitty for job growth compared to the unemployment rate would be measurably
even as we are wrestling with trying to debt a handle on the fiscal cliff, we cannot lose sight of their urgent priority of making sure we have job growth -- job creation, to say the least. many of the components you have outlined -- that both of you have -- it comprised of the broad description of the fiscal cliff whether it is the expiring tax cut provisions, the expiring tax cut extensions, and spending cuts as well. if you consider more, which of those would you consider having the biggest...
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>> on the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling? >> on the debt ceiling. >> i was very interested by your reporting. that you took a really strong position there. i do think the white house has been transformed. both by the experience with the debt ceiling and with the election. i think if they want to stand their ground, i think they can actually do it. i think that that is, in fact, possible. can they? you know, we'll see. they seem a lot tougher now than they were last time around. don't you think? >> they sound very tough now. chrystia freeland of thomson, and author of "the plutocrats." >>> i promised you, red lobster, olive garden, timely for both, and i will deliver. that is ahead. [ male announcer ] take dayquil... [ ding! ] ...and spend time on the slopes. take alka-seltzer plus cold & cough... [ buzz! ] ...and spend time on the chair. for non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief. take dayquil. use nyquil d... [ ding! ] ...and get longer nighttime cough relief. use alka-seltzer plus night cold & flu... [ coughs ] [ buzz! ] [
>> on the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling? >> on the debt ceiling. >> i was very interested by your reporting. that you took a really strong position there. i do think the white house has been transformed. both by the experience with the debt ceiling and with the election. i think if they want to stand their ground, i think they can actually do it. i think that that is, in fact, possible. can they? you know, we'll see. they seem a lot tougher now than they were last time...
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cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the sameç people pay moref their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> let's allow higher rates to go up for the top 2%, that includes all of you, yes. but not in any way that's going to affect your spending, your lifestyles, or the economy in any significant way. let's make sure that 98% of americans don't see
cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's...
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insist any fiscal cliff deal includes a raising of the debt ceiling or they're going to say, we want the power to raise the debt ceiling. you know, i think that might actually end up being a big sticking point of the negotiation. >> understandably they see it as the biggest point of leverage. >> it also seems to me the tone is moving in the wrong direction. after the -- right after the election, there was a little bit of recrimination, a little like well, boehner sounded getting squishy and what's happened over the succession of weeks since then, as he's meeting with the caucus, there's a hardening. in terms of -- >> or a disbelief -- a disbelief -- >> comes out and says stuff like that, you read some of the local papers, these people rshs it. >> are telling their local paper we're in a bad negotiation position here. >> the problem is, had he's probably a guy that's going to -- boehner will still be dealing with after january 3rd. in the lame duck congress it's still the same congress and boehner still has to message to those people because he still has to gets the gavel back in janu
insist any fiscal cliff deal includes a raising of the debt ceiling or they're going to say, we want the power to raise the debt ceiling. you know, i think that might actually end up being a big sticking point of the negotiation. >> understandably they see it as the biggest point of leverage. >> it also seems to me the tone is moving in the wrong direction. after the -- right after the election, there was a little bit of recrimination, a little like well, boehner sounded getting...
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having an agreement to avoid the debt, the fiscal cliff, and then having a down payment on actually getting the $4 trillion identified. >> howard dean is a deficit hawk. liberal, but he is a deficit hawk. he doesn't say maybe if we can't get a deal together, maybe we'd be okay with the fiscal cliff. he says that is the best deal for everyone, the best deal for progressives, just to do it. to go back to the clinton era rates. you get rid of three quarters of the deficit just on tax increases at that point. >> and he says you get defense cuts. >> you can't get defense cuts any other way. and he's not the only one. there's a lot of people on the left and there's quite a few people on the right. i'm glad you're optimistic and a lot of ceos and guys in your position -- if you run a company, you don't need consumers petrified and business people petrified. this is the last thing we need if you run a company. i understand you have a horse in the game. >> but you also have the double trigger. if you go over the cliff, we've got the debt ceiling fight right afterwards. it's not like that's six month
having an agreement to avoid the debt, the fiscal cliff, and then having a down payment on actually getting the $4 trillion identified. >> howard dean is a deficit hawk. liberal, but he is a deficit hawk. he doesn't say maybe if we can't get a deal together, maybe we'd be okay with the fiscal cliff. he says that is the best deal for everyone, the best deal for progressives, just to do it. to go back to the clinton era rates. you get rid of three quarters of the deficit just on tax...
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cliff and cut the national debt. the 81-year-old simpson went "gangnam style" to make his point. ♪ >> i have a bum knee. horse, horse. ride the horse. >> senator, thank you for that. and that's your morning dish of "scrambled politics." and now for a look at your national weather, let's turn to bill karins. he has your weather channel forecast. >> the best part is the underwater robot for a place that doesn't have water. >> maybe it's a pool. >> yes. >> and they need to inspect it. >> counter-terrorism measures in the backyard. you never know. good morning, everyone. getting out the door this morning, it's very cold up in new england. tell you what, the lack of snow is really becoming a slightly alarming especially if you have any interest in snowy weather recreation or skiing or ice skating or maybe you like to go snowmobiling. the northern half of the country is sparse. 7% of the country has snow cover. most of that is the high elevations in the rockies and northern rockies. it's about as low as it gets. last yea
cliff and cut the national debt. the 81-year-old simpson went "gangnam style" to make his point. ♪ >> i have a bum knee. horse, horse. ride the horse. >> senator, thank you for that. and that's your morning dish of "scrambled politics." and now for a look at your national weather, let's turn to bill karins. he has your weather channel forecast. >> the best part is the underwater robot for a place that doesn't have water. >> maybe it's a pool....
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let's get to this fiscal cliff. $4 trillion in debt reduction. are there specific ways of reaching that figure that both of you might agree on? >> well, you know i think one comprom ice is that we need to cut some military spending. conservatives like myself who think that national spending, i think that compromise could get to spending cut. >> here is the question, both sides are going to have to compromise beyond defense spending. do you see you supporting? >> mostly has to be on the spending side. we used to spend 20% of gdp. federal spending has gone up. and when people say we have to raise taxes on rich people, one there is not enough money and you get less revenue. and when you lower rates you get more revenue. what do you make of tom cole's proposal that republican lawmakers should extend tax rates for those making less before the end of this year and deal with the tax rates for the wealthiest americans at a later date? >> once you separate them out there is not a lot of sympathy for therism people. but the public often doesn't realize tha
let's get to this fiscal cliff. $4 trillion in debt reduction. are there specific ways of reaching that figure that both of you might agree on? >> well, you know i think one comprom ice is that we need to cut some military spending. conservatives like myself who think that national spending, i think that compromise could get to spending cut. >> here is the question, both sides are going to have to compromise beyond defense spending. do you see you supporting? >> mostly has to...
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about the fiscal cliff. host: and in the washington post is a picture of three c.e.o.'s coming out of the white house. this is patricia wuertz, she is the chief executive of archer daniel's midland. emmett fraser of merck and another person walking out. we're going to move onto william in maryland on our republican line. hi, william. caller: gorn. i love watching c-span, i'm a first time caller. host: welcome. caller: thank you. i'm not the greatest at this, but i can tell you as an african-american republican, who is a home owner association's president for his community of 339 homes, and someone who works in security, and someone who volunteers at least 40 hours a week on his community, there is a issue with us as americans and picking up slack. we put too much on the federal government to do. we as people need to stand more for each other and help each other. and i guarantee you if we took the money out of the politics, and we as the people stood together with one another and helped each other as in the c
about the fiscal cliff. host: and in the washington post is a picture of three c.e.o.'s coming out of the white house. this is patricia wuertz, she is the chief executive of archer daniel's midland. emmett fraser of merck and another person walking out. we're going to move onto william in maryland on our republican line. hi, william. caller: gorn. i love watching c-span, i'm a first time caller. host: welcome. caller: thank you. i'm not the greatest at this, but i can tell you as an...
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. >> fiscal cliff. >> fiscal cliff. >> that dreaded fiscal cliff. >> stephen: yes, the dreaded fiscal cliff. an unavoidable money will technology the razor-sharp financial rocks below. it all started back in 2011 during the showdown over raising our debt ceiling when republicans wanted spending cuts and obama wanted to raise taxes. which led to a budget crisis that congress solved by not solving it. (laughter) instead, they handed it over to something called "the supercongress" which couldn't fail because it was super. (laughter) unfortunately it was also congress so it failed. (laughter) and as a result -- (applause) as a result -- (applause) as a result, folks, we are facing another thing called sequestration which at first sounds like rationing the amount you can watch "sea quest." (laughter) but it's even worse than that. (laughter) sequestration is automatic spending cuts that both sides agree would trigger a new recession. it's like congress put a gun to the economy's head and swore it will pull the triger if congress doesn't put its own gun down. (laughter) it's kind of like a
. >> fiscal cliff. >> fiscal cliff. >> that dreaded fiscal cliff. >> stephen: yes, the dreaded fiscal cliff. an unavoidable money will technology the razor-sharp financial rocks below. it all started back in 2011 during the showdown over raising our debt ceiling when republicans wanted spending cuts and obama wanted to raise taxes. which led to a budget crisis that congress solved by not solving it. (laughter) instead, they handed it over to something called "the...
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welcome. >> thank you. >> so the fiscal cliff issue, end of the year is looming. we saw the response to this opening gambit by president obama. how likely is it that this is the final plan put forward, what elements do you expect to be most critical here as talks continue? >> i think there will be a lot of brinkmanship. this is just the beginning of the process. i think it will be a while. we'll probably go into next year and actually go over the cliff temporarily before they get a deal. >> so you're in the over the cliff camp. >> if you talk to people in washington, they think it will be done before christmas. how can they say we'll go away on say case, don't worry, we'll be back and solve this, but i think it will be pretty tough to solve it before we actually go into next year. >> merry christmas, here is your tax hike? >> i think people are preparing for that anyway. i think everyone realizes that tax rates for upper households will go up. >> certainly companies are aware of what's happening. >> you're seeing more deals to take advantage of the lower capital g
welcome. >> thank you. >> so the fiscal cliff issue, end of the year is looming. we saw the response to this opening gambit by president obama. how likely is it that this is the final plan put forward, what elements do you expect to be most critical here as talks continue? >> i think there will be a lot of brinkmanship. this is just the beginning of the process. i think it will be a while. we'll probably go into next year and actually go over the cliff temporarily before they...
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which is what we hear so much about during this whole fiscal cliff debate so let's bring sheila back in to talk more about these before we get into this i do want to ask what we were talking about when we're going into break and this idea you said there's so much confusion surrounding this barrister and acquisition and why that was even done that wasn't even during the crisis but this idea that j.p. morgan did the fed a favor even though it may not have been good for shareholders what does that say about the relationship between government or regulators and the big banks that the bank would do the fed a favor that maybe wasn't even good for shareholders. this is when i talk about this in the book you know the f.d.i.c deals with troubled banks that we ensure we have for decades we have very strict rules about this we discuss resolution and we don't put government money and we don't keep them up when we run them through a government controlled bankruptcy pretty sickly we go up for competitive bidding there are all sorts of special rules of modern procedures the company by this so it is
which is what we hear so much about during this whole fiscal cliff debate so let's bring sheila back in to talk more about these before we get into this i do want to ask what we were talking about when we're going into break and this idea you said there's so much confusion surrounding this barrister and acquisition and why that was even done that wasn't even during the crisis but this idea that j.p. morgan did the fed a favor even though it may not have been good for shareholders what does that...
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the national debt to the fiscal cliff. what are your thoughts? >> i don't think it matters all that much. i agree with bill clinton's comment from the earlier segment. >> i am agreeing with him as a matter of analysis. it doesn't appear that obama is aiming to do something big and constructive here. he is aiming for a victory on a small point of dispute. that is sort of the lowest common denominator. that is what both sides can agree upon. since obama doesn't seem to want to give anything to the republicans, that is where i think it will end up. lou: where do you think they will end up in a war that we will end up, far more importantly? >> i think that is a great question. i don't think anybody knows. to the point of the testing, i thought the interesting point was made by president obama at the business roundtable. working towards john engler his possession to extend debt ceiling providers. that is what we are talking about. >> what is broken is taxes and the dead and spending cuts. if the president were honest and in good faith, he wouldn't be
the national debt to the fiscal cliff. what are your thoughts? >> i don't think it matters all that much. i agree with bill clinton's comment from the earlier segment. >> i am agreeing with him as a matter of analysis. it doesn't appear that obama is aiming to do something big and constructive here. he is aiming for a victory on a small point of dispute. that is sort of the lowest common denominator. that is what both sides can agree upon. since obama doesn't seem to want to give...
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fiscal cliff, beyond the fiscal cliff. let me get to this steve. this is about including the debt ceiling. and what the president said about that in this negotiation today. >> we are not going to play that game next year. >> if congress in any way suggests they will tie negotiation to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again, part of a budget negotiation, which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year. i will not play that game. because we have to break that habit before it starts. >> bret: what about that? >> well, the president had as many red lines for iran as for house republicans. i think what kirsten said is absolutely remarkable. it is about the scalp. it's about the president having made a campaign argument for the better part of 2012. so that he could run a class warfare campaign. now having to make good on that with the base of his party. the u.s. economy be damned. the republicans offered to give so much and offering precisely what erskine bowles laid out as a compromise position in
fiscal cliff, beyond the fiscal cliff. let me get to this steve. this is about including the debt ceiling. and what the president said about that in this negotiation today. >> we are not going to play that game next year. >> if congress in any way suggests they will tie negotiation to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again, part of a budget negotiation, which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year. i will not play that game....
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he said he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused not on cutting spending but on raising daxs and revenues with the only question being which taxes, how much revenue, then obama wins. now if obama succeeds in making the argument not about his spending, but about grover norquist, he wins there, too. for republicans, on the other hand, if they can figure out a way to refocus the debate on spending, they win and the country wins. we can't kid ourselves that's correct is not easy to do. obama has the biggest microphone in the land and he also has the media in his hip pocket. all the gop has is control of the house. now it's
he said he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused...
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they are looking for certainty on the fiscal cliff. certainty that debt reduction, there will be debt reduction, that entitlements will be brought under control. looking for certainty on taxe taxes. until this happens, there isn't going to be that certainly. i have to say that the republicans showed the political will. they stood up, to the conservative base. they put the re-knews on the table. what troubles me -- now that the ball is in the white house court, right? what troubles me is lack of political will on the white house, we haven't seen yet. particularly on spending and entitlement reform. voices in the deckic party saying that this was a mandate to walk away from debt reduction. that is troubling. >> charles lane do you see anything out there to give the business confidence to hire people again? >> well, there is just, i agree with nina. too many unknowns. we could add the situation the slow, steady, stagnation of europe to the mix. we could add uncertainty about where china is going to go. the troubling thing about the depart
they are looking for certainty on the fiscal cliff. certainty that debt reduction, there will be debt reduction, that entitlements will be brought under control. looking for certainty on taxe taxes. until this happens, there isn't going to be that certainly. i have to say that the republicans showed the political will. they stood up, to the conservative base. they put the re-knews on the table. what troubles me -- now that the ball is in the white house court, right? what troubles me is lack of...
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host: the president yesterday spoke about the debt ceiling and is tied to the fiscal cliff negotiations. [video clip] >> i have to tell you that is a bad strategy for america, a bad strategy for our businesses, and it is not a game that i will play. most of you were involved in discussions and watched the catastrophe that happened in august of 2011. everybody here is concerned about uncertainty. there is no uncertainty like the prospect that the largest economy that holds the world's reserve currency potentially defaults on its debts, that we give out the basic notion that the united states stands behind its obligations. we cannot afford -- host: whil"the wall street journal." guest: the president does not want to negotiate with the republicans on the debt ceiling. that is like giving a son or daughter a credit card to do with it as they want freely. i think the president has to admit that both sides have tried to break measures and legislations to the table that would reduce the debt ceiling. the president -- look at how the deficit has quadrupled since he has been in the white house a
host: the president yesterday spoke about the debt ceiling and is tied to the fiscal cliff negotiations. [video clip] >> i have to tell you that is a bad strategy for america, a bad strategy for our businesses, and it is not a game that i will play. most of you were involved in discussions and watched the catastrophe that happened in august of 2011. everybody here is concerned about uncertainty. there is no uncertainty like the prospect that the largest economy that holds the world's...
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unfortunately, one of the big upsets about this fiscal cliff and the $16 trillion debt is the taxes and what we're leaving to our kids and grand kids. i hate to pour cold water on this, bill. poor charlie. >>> all right. we have the closing countdown next. >> after the bell, we'll hear from somebody who says entitlements didn't cause our debt problems, cuts to them shouldn't be part of the fiscal cliff solution and the negotiations continue. you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide. d... ♪ ♪ ...could end with adding a close friend. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of the year. this is the pursuit of perfection. governor of getting it done. you know how to dance... with a deadline. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. this is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro. well, having a ton of locations doesn't hurt. and a santa to boot! [ c
unfortunately, one of the big upsets about this fiscal cliff and the $16 trillion debt is the taxes and what we're leaving to our kids and grand kids. i hate to pour cold water on this, bill. poor charlie. >>> all right. we have the closing countdown next. >> after the bell, we'll hear from somebody who says entitlements didn't cause our debt problems, cuts to them shouldn't be part of the fiscal cliff solution and the negotiations continue. you're watching cnbc, first in...
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host: if this is not addressed in the fiscal cliff debate, will it come up in the debt ceiling debate? guest: all of this depends on how the fiscal cliff sorts itself out. yesterday, you have senators say we want on income benefits extended. if the fiscal cliff debate is only limited to tax rates and deficit reduction, and not the debt ceiling, this will come up again. president obama once the debt ceiling to be part of this agreement. the reason why is simple, because that is where republicans have leverage in february. he needs republicans to extend the debt ceiling for the government to function with all going into default. republicans know this, and in theory they could separate the two to maximize their leverage. host: time for a couple more calls in this segment of the "washington journal," we will continue the unemployment insurance discussion in the following segment. laura is in louisville, kentucky, on the independent line. caller: good morning. what bothers me is when people say they actually can not find work and they have been on unemployment for 20 months, whatever they
host: if this is not addressed in the fiscal cliff debate, will it come up in the debt ceiling debate? guest: all of this depends on how the fiscal cliff sorts itself out. yesterday, you have senators say we want on income benefits extended. if the fiscal cliff debate is only limited to tax rates and deficit reduction, and not the debt ceiling, this will come up again. president obama once the debt ceiling to be part of this agreement. the reason why is simple, because that is where republicans...